(1) Pervasive poverty of Mumbai slums ... but without tension, anger, or rage

(2) Diffusion, Aryan Invasion of India ... What are your credentials?

(1) Pervasive poverty of Mumbai slums ... but without tension, anger, or rage

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:57:37 -0500 From: "Michael Albert" <sysop@ZMAG.ORG>

Here is another ZNet Update.

Mumbai, WSF, and Our Futures

Michael Albert

WSF 4 in Mumbai was a quite different experience than prior Porto Alegre WSFs.
In many respects it was better organized. Women were far more visible,
empowered, and empowering - often providing the most important as well as the
best presented material. The attendee composition altered dramatically from
being overwhelmingly South American with a significant U.S. and European
presence, to being overwhelmingly Asian with a significant African and some
U.S. and European presence.

Whereas the city of Porto Alegre was a well off, small, left-administered
welcoming host in a left-administered welcoming Brazilian state -- Mumbai was
the indifferent massive financial center of an indifferent right-leaning
India. The pervasive poverty of Mumbai's streets exceeded anything I had seen
before. The mammoth Mumbai bustle transcended other bustle I'd seen, as well.
It feels misleading to use the same term "diversity," to describe what was
present in Mumbai and to also describe Western cultural variety. Diversity in
India, and apparently in Asia more broadly, is truly diverse.

My knowledge of India is less than minuscule. I went there to learn and I am
not even sure I managed to do that. But two aspects particularly confused me.

The slums are enormous and horrendously poor. Everyone knows that, and we also
broadly understand poverty's imperial and corporate and caste sources. Seeing
the hunger is different than just "knowing it," but even beyond that, what
struck me is that despite the evident magnitude of suffering, the usual
tension, anger, and rage that characterize slums in the U.S. seemed absent.

Something in India leads those stretching their hands up from the gutters for
a pittance to feed a family, or those working the corridors of five star
hotels (that are barely as ritzy as small Holiday Inns in the U.S.), or those
sitting outside shanties watching the relatively well off stroll past, to not
exude hostility and anger and even knife-edge violence. I was told that theft
from tourists is minimal and my meager experience around the city suggested
the claim was true. The slums aren't policed that I could see and even at the
interfaces between destitute and wealthy, the police presence seemed less
numerous and less fearsome than in the U.S.

Supposing that I was seeing even reasonably clearly, I would imagine the cause
of the relative quiescence is religion, and in particular the caste system. On
the one hand, I felt like this relative peacefulness probably made life at the
bottom in India far less horrible than if everyone also constantly feared
passers-by on every street, and if many suffered drug addicted or incarcerated
or murdered relatives, as in many regions of the U.S. On the other hand, I
felt like an age-old question - "why don't hungry people steal?" - was even
more relevant here in India, with its hundreds of millions of desperately
poor, than it is relevant, say, in the U.S., with thirty million below the
poverty line.

At last year's WSF, Arundhati Roy worried that to have the events in India
would enable India's fundamentalist Hindu elites to put a pretty face on the
society, aiding their attempts to rise to horrific domination. After WSF 4, I
haven't heard any comment on this possibility. But I fear that Roy may have
been right.

Roy herself, and a few others from India, and some folks from outside as well,
quite courageously conveyed to the WSF attendees, as best they could in the
time allotted, a picture of Hindu fundamentalism engorging its appetites with
little restraint. They weren't tossing around epithets like "fascist" and
"fundamentalist" lightly, as many in the U.S. do when referring to Bush. They
knew what the words imply, and they used them knowingly, describing the thugs
seeking to rise to ultimate power as willing, able, and already quite
practiced at ripping the innards out of people - mostly Muslims -- for street
sport as well as political gain.

They described still localized but rising Nazi German violence levels, though
without the concentration camps, as yet. The young child who watched in the
streets of Gujarat as his Hindu school teacher killed his Muslim father. The
mass rapes, the murders, the body limbs torn off and body organs mutilated,
the slow but steady escalation toward the hell that is real fascism, was the
image I got from speakers who I very much trusted.

At the same time, however, I could not myself feel anything like this in the
streets of Mumbai or Pune, a nearby city we also visited. There was nothing in
the behavior or the words of the potential victims or of the potential
purveyors who I encountered that gave away feelings that they were afraid that
they would soon be victim or victimizer in a burgeoning massacre. And so this
was the second big aspect of India I could not comprehend.

People I met were not thinking of leaving the country, or of security in any
sense. And on the streets, people were not displaying the macho brown shirt
style or the savvy fear that you might anticipate in a run-up toward fascism.
Yet, even against my own senses, I believed Roy and others who described what
they thought was coming. I suspect that the massive celebrations of diversity
and hope within the Mumbai WSF events left very few people going home to the
West wondering, as I was, if they would soon be opening their homes to people
fleeing an India that had gone berserk. ... {end}

(2) Diffusion, Aryan Invasion of India ... What are your credentials? (Peter M)

Recently I had some emails from an academic who opposes the Diffusion theory
and the AIT (Aryan Invasion Theory, as the Hindu Nationalists of the BJP call
it), asking what my credentials are.

Diffusion is "out of fashion" in academia. In putting the case, I let credible
experts speak for themselves. Readers take their word, not mine:

Cyrus Gordon at http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/gordon.html

Thor Heyerdahl and Cyrus Gordon at
http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/before-columbus.html

Part of Diffusion theory is the Aryan Invasion (of India, Western Europe, and
parts of the Middle East).

I let Joseph Needham and David Anthony put the evidence for it, at http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/needham-anthony.html

and Marija Gimbutas, A. L. Basham and Martin Bernal, at http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/gimbutas.html

and Jared Diamond at http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/diamond.html

Frederick Engels argued for the Aryan Invasion of Europe in his paper On the
Early History of the Germans (1882; published in Collected Works of Karl Marx
and Frederick Engels, Volume 26, Progress Publishers, Moscow, 1990).

After World War II, anyone arguing for the Aryan Invasion of Europe was
smeared as a Nazi; even the Marxist prehistorian V. Gordon Childe went silent.
Colin Renfrew wrote that, after Hitler's use of the Aryan theme, "Childe
subsequently avoided all mention of his book The Aryans, although in fact it
offered no evidence in favour of the delusion of racial superiority and was
very careful to distinguish between language and culture and supposed racial
classifications" (Archaeology and Language, p. 4).

At the same time, Indologists had no problem with the Aryan Invasion of India.
In the 1950s & 60s, academics generally adhered to it - e.g. Stuart Piggot in
Prehistoric India to 1000 B.C., and A. L. Basham in The Wonder That Was India.

Basham wrote, "The invaders of India called themselves Aryas, a word generally
anglicized into Aryans. The name was also used by the ancient Persians, and
survives in the word Iran, while Eire, the name of the most westerly land
reached by Indo-European peoples in ancient times, is also cognate." (The
Wonder That Was India, Grove Press, New York, 1959, p. 28).

Some of the scholars supporting Diffusion and the Aryan Invasion are Jewish;
e.g. Gordon, Diamond, and Bernal; Heyerdahl, Needham, Basham and Anthony are
not. I note this, because anti-Diffusion theory is heavily ideological.

Gandhi was assassinated by a Hindu Nationalist; with the rise of the BJP,
there has been a concerted campaign against the Aryan Invasion of India.

The BJP online bookshop: http://www.bjp.org/today/bookshop.htm

Voice of India online bookshop: http://voi.org/books/

Cyrus Gordon showed that the earliest stories about Abraham include themes
found only in Aryan epics:

Cyrus H. Gordon, Before the Bible: the Common Background of Greek and Hebrew
Civilisations (Collins, London, 1962).

{p. 26} The elite charioteer officers, who bear the Indo-European name of
maryannu, soon became a new aristocracy throughout the entire area, including
Egypt. With them appears also a new type of royal epic, which we may call the
Indo-European War Epic. Embedded in it is a motif that has become commonplace
in world literature: the Helen of Troy theme, whereby a hero loses his
destined bride and must wage a war to win her back. Greek and Indic epic
illustrate this theme {The Indian one is the Ramayana}, and it is from the
Iliad that it has become popular in the modern West. However, it is completely
absent from the romantic literatures of early Mesopotamia and Egypt, and it
appears in the Semitic World only in the wake of the Indo-Europeans with their
maryannu aristocracy. The Helen of Troy theme first appears at Ugarit of the
Amarna Age, in a community where the Indo-European elements are present,
including a firmly entrenched organisation of maryannu. As we shall note
later, the theme permeates the early traditions of Israel, particularly the
saga of Abraham.

{p. 132} The destined bride of

{p. 133} Abraham was twice wrested from him, once by the King of Egypt and
once by the King of Philistine Gerar. (The latter king, or one of his
subjects, also came close to wresting Rebecca from Isaac.) But the hero
Abraham retrieved the destined mother of his royal line, both times. In other
words, the Helen of Troy motif permeates the Patriarchal Narratives of
Genesis, but no one noticed it because ingrained attitudes kept our Greek and
Hebrew heritages in water-tight compartments. {end}

Gordon thus demolishes the antithesis between "Aryan" and "Jewish": http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/gordon.html

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 02:59:04 -0500 From: "Don Smithers"

As I and a friend of mine, an archaeologist and retired professor of physics
from Hunter College in New York, have wondered: what is your background? what
are your credentials? -- in other words, where are you coming from to suggest
that "...the sustained attack on the positions of the early 20th-century
archaeologists Oscar Montelius and Gordon Childe launched by Colin Renfrew and
his colleagues has not merely been a complete waste of time but has been
positively harmful to our understanding of the origins of Greek civilization." ???

On what basis do you say this? Do you know something we do not, nor Koenraad
Elst, among an host of others?

Please elucidate.

Sincerely,

Prof. DL Smithers

--------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:04:15 -0500 From: "Don Smithers"

I, for one, do not refute nor, apparently, disagree with your notions, nor
those of Needham and Anthony. My query is: why do you defend them? Where are
you coming from? What is your evidence? To agree with a position requires as
much evidence as to disagree - do you not agree? Seeing that you are one of
those rare individuals who has taken the trouble to defend the diffusionist
position, it would be useful if you defended it with cannon and shot, not mere
words. Taking an academic position generally supposes an academic background.
What is yours? Surely you have more than mere gut feelings and opinions to
lend your support to this interesting problem crossing over several
disciplines, otherwise, why would you go to the trouble for so much flow of
net mail. My interest is quite practical, though touching on several aspects
of the archaeological-anthropological debate: I am looking for a variety of
evidence to support a wor

At any rate, it would be of some interest to discover your academic-research
credentials. Your perfunctory dismissal of Koenraad Elst is not only
uncharitable, but silly -- especially in light of the highly thoughtful and
constructive book he has written. Have you read it? It is on the internet,
though I prefer having my own copy (published in New Delhi in 1999). If you
are going to dismiss the long and hard work of others, you might be rather
more detailed in your rejections. Do you not think you owe that, at least?

Do you have a curriculm vitae available? What have you published?

I look forward to your reply and the possibility of a lively exchange of views.

---------

REPLY (Peter M):

Don,

I do put details of my life on my website, but not all in one place, in linear
style like a resume; instead, I make readers work for it.

One reason I do not tout credentials, is that I think that the argument from
Authority is weaker than the argument from Reason and Evidence.

As you know, fashions change - even in academia.

Credentials are a form of Licensing.

In tertiary studies, I followed 3 directions: in a Catholic seminary, I
completed the "Philosophy" stage (the first 3 years).

Later, I did a B.A. Hons (Social Anthropology) at Sydney University, with a
major in Philosophy as well.

Later, I did a B. Sc. (Information Science) at the University of Tasmania, in
Hobart, with a major in Physics as well.

Of these courses, I think that the seminary course was on a par with the
Sydney University course. Each was biased of course, but the intellectual
worth was about the same.

So, for example, I had two different studies of the Presocratic Philosophers -
one in the seminary, one at Sydney University. And in the wake of my recent
work on Karl Popper's Open Society and Its Enemies
(http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/popper-vs-toynbee.html), I have noted
Popper's focus on Heraclitus; then noted Hegel's fixation on Heraclitus; and
recently, am preparing my own study on Heraclitus, which will encompass widely
differing viewpoints e.g. of John Burnet, Kirk & Raven, & Lawrence H. Mills.

Any Classics expert would be jolted by the inclusion of Lawrence H. Mills,
because he was an Avesta scholar. He recognised influences within Heraclitus'
ideas, from the Zoroastrian religion, which was the religion of the First
Persian Empire. Heraclitus lived at Ephesus, at the edge between that empire
and the Greek world.

Heraclitus was not a Zoroastrian; Ruhi Muhsen Afnan noted the influence, but
depicted the Greeks as passive recipients of Zoroastrian ideas. Rather, the
Greeks regarded Zoroastrianism as a stimulant: they took elements of it and
wove it into their own ideas, just as intellectuals of the West selectively
adopted some Marxist ideas during the Cold War.

I am thinking that Heraclitus was more of a Taoist than a Zoroastrian; the
difference is whether one emphasis complementarity (complementary polarity) or
antagonism (antagonistic polarity).

There are substantial differences between the translations of the fragments of
Heraclitus that have come down to us. Some translators deny that Heraclitus
used the concept Logos, long before other Greeks. However, I think that even
the "sceptic" translations show that he did use the concept, even if not the
word itself.

The Logos of Heraclitus is analogous to the Nous of Anaxagoras and the Tao of
Taoism.

Lawrence H. Mills pointed out analogies between the Greek Logos and the
Zoroastrian Amesha-Spentas of the Zend Avesta.

Logos means Reason, Nous (Mind), Thought, and shows up in the word "Word",
where the Gospel of St. John proclaims Jesus the "Word" of God.

In Heraclitus, my two different studies - seminary and university - thus come
to play, decades later. I will be weaving all these themes together in my
study of Heraclitus.

Popper's focus on Heraclitus is as an opponent; Hegel's as a supporter. Both
adopted the antagonistic interpretation of polarity in Heraclitus, erroneously
in my view.

Hegel not only adopted the antagonistic interpretation of Heraclitus, but
combined it with a belief in "progress" (linear development) and teleology
(convergence towards a goal) absent from Heraclitus' own writings).

Popper smears Heraclitus, blaming him for the use made of him by Hegel 2300
years later; and Popper blames Hegel for the totalitarianism of the USSR of
the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. Working backwards, Popper castigates not
only Heraclitus but Plato too, because Hegel was a Platonist.

On my fridge I have a little article about academia: "The Ph.D. involves
learning more and more about less and less, until one knows almost everything
about nearly nothing".

The reference is to Qualifications of Australian Academics, by Dr Don Anderson
and Mr. Robert Arthur of ANU, and Dr Terry Stokes, of Monash University.

Arnold J. Toynbee argued that over-specialisation endangers our civilisation.
He wrote in A Study of History VOLUME XII RECONSIDERATIONS (Oxford University
Press, London 1961):

{p. 130} What is needed now is a ruthless demolition squad, armed with the
inteilectual equivalent of atomic artillery, to batter the traditional
interdisciplinary dividing walls down to the ground. This would restore the
natural unity of the field that has been cut up, for so long, by these
encroaching enclosures. No doubt, at all times and in all intellectual
situations, the huge field of human studies needs to be parcelled out for
operational purposes. But the partitions should be provisional only, and they
should be demarcated by transferable hurdles, not by embedded stone walls.

{p. 633} On the question of specialization I do not dispute the argument that,
in the present-day world, the accumulated and still fast accumulating store of
knowledge is so great by comparison with the capacity of one mind in one
lifetime that specialization has become an indispensable intellectual tool.
But being indispensable is not the same thing as being self-sufficient; and
the target of my criticism is an apparent unwillingness to recognize that
specialization alone is not enough to give us the knowledge and understanding
that we are seeking.
The further that specialization is carried, the more of the meaning of the
phenomena is left unplumbed in the unexplored gaps between the specialists'
deep but narrowly constricted borings. This method leaves critical questions
not only unanswered but unasked. And they will remain unasked if the
microscopic approach is not supplemented by a panoramic one. Without

{p. 634} a combination of the two, there can be no stereoscopoic vision.
{endquote} http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/toynbee.html

I had one very unusual teacher in the seminary - Bede Heather, who later
became Bishop of Parramatta. Of each 50-minute lecture, he would spend 20
minutes presenting one side of a case, then 20 minutes presenting a contrary
case on the same topic, then a summing up and reconsideration, in which he
would give his own view.

I found it most stimulating, and have endeavoured to use this method in my own
email list.

As for my studies, you might say "Big Deal - Generalists don't count in Academia".

But who is to say? Go back to Plato's academy: who licensed Plato himself? Did
he have a Ph. D.? From which university?

Who licensed Heraclitus? What are his credentials?

Who licensed Anaxagoras? Or Confucius, or Lao-Tsu, or Socrates, or
Zarathustra, or Jesus?

Plenty of licensed people will be forgotten soon after their death.

Even in the field of science, there are un-licensed people regarded as
experts; Richard Leakey is one:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/rleakey.html.

And then there are the licensed people who forever remain heretics, excluded
by the orthodox. Thor Heyerdahl, Fred Hoyle; Cyrus Gordon was on the fringe
for endorsing trans-Atlantic crossings before Columbus.

So, I don't tout credentials. I only ask that my case be weighed on its
merits. Even then, people won't all agree on that.

I was dux of my high school/college in Sydney, a school with an excellent
academic record - two years before me, one student had gained 1st place in
Maths1 and 1st in Maths2, at the NSW Leaving Certificate. I was a maths wizard
too, but I insisted on devoting a lot of time to History as well, contrary to
my Maths teacher's wishes. In the 1965 Leaving Certificate, I gained a
"maximum pass" and came 42nd in NSW overall; I was 102nd in Maths1 and 17th in Maths2.

I don't object to Koenraad Elst's case against the Aryan Invasion of India
being on the internet, accessible world-wide; but I have placed the contrary
case on my site. ...

Aryan Invasion of India

Mark XX, denying the Aryan invasion of India and destruction of Harappa, wrote
to me,

<<The Rig Veda "boasts" of its heroes destroying some cities, which are not
named. ... Nothing in this warrants identification of the destroyed cities
with the Indus-Sarasvati Valley Civilization.

<<In any case, that civilization is now known to have declined (and its
population shifted eastwards) due to climatic change (desertification,
including the drying up of the Sarasvati)>>

To reply, I scanned in a few pages from the Rig Veda, so you can read it
direct - no need to take my word for it.

They are from the 1896 translation of the Rig Veda by T. H. Griffith:

Rig Veda 6.27.5 (Book 6, Hymn 27, Verse 5) names the city of Harappa (calling
it Hariyupiya).

The site of the ruined city was not discovered until the 1920s, near a village
bearing that name still. Yet in this 1896 translation of the Rig Veda, a major
battle is described there, a devastating Aryan victory:
http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/rig-veda6.27.jpg

This proves that "metaphorical" interpretations of the Rig Veda are false, and
that "natural causes" i.e. "ecological change" is not the reason for the fall
of the Harappan civilization.

The ecological change was in fact caused by the Aryans' destruction of the
dams & irrigation system.

Rig Veda 1.100 and 1.101 (Book 1, Hymns 100 & 101) are hymns describing the
Aryans as "fair-complexioned" and the Harappans as "the dusky brood":
http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/rig-veda1.100-101.jpg

Rig Veda 9. 41 (Book 9, Hymn 41) describes the defeated as people of "black
skin": http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/rig-veda9.41.jpg

Rig Veda 1.32 (Book 1, Hymn 32) boasts of the cruelty of the Aryan attackers: http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/rig-veda1.32.jpg

The Rig Veda describes a brutal Race-war. It's pretty sickening. How could we
regard it as Sacred Literature? Then again, the Bible is very similar: http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/guthridge.html

It seems that the Biblical invasions may not have occurred as the Bible says.
That is, that the Torah - the books atributed to Moses - is a later concoction
of scribes & theologians, principally Ezra, synthesising earlier written and
oral sources:
http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/bible.html

This was possible, because the people who constructed it were scribes, i.e.
proficient in reading and writing. That facilitated a cut-and-paste job,
whereas the Rig Veda was an Oral composition, passed down exactly, without
alteration, although extra parts were added over time.

The lack of written copies prevented a Cut-and-Paste job on such material.

This Tamil separatist site gives more evidence on the Aryan Invasion: http://www.dalitstan.org/books/bibai/

Yet, Tamils, by and large, do not seem to support the separatist movement, or
the Aryan Invasion view of history.

Admitting the truth about the past, or denying it, can be politically
destabilising, in the face of ethnic separatism or hostility from neighbours.
This is true of Australia, the US, Japan, Israel, and China too. Most populous
states contain aggrieved minorities; even small states, such as the Solomon
Islands, can be torn by violent civil wars.

Big empires were usually established by violent conquest and destruction. It
may not be sufficient reason to dismantle the state however, because, often,
that violent establishment period is followed by a peaceful blossoming of civilization.

The First Persian Empire is an example. David Ben Gurion wrote of it:

"1) This great empire of Cyrus was established within a very short period of
time: in the 11 years which passed from the conquest of Achmetah, capital of
Media, in the year 550 B.C., to the conquest of Babylonia in 539. 2) The
Persian empire endured for 200 years under the rule of the Cyrus dynasty,
while the empire of Alexander the Great, which was, as is known, the inheritor
of the Persian empire, survived only during his lifetime, and fell apart
immediately after he died. 3) Cyrus exhibited a compassionate spirit toward
his enemies and a unique tolerance toward all religions; 4) He played a
decisive role in the first return to Zion." http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/bengur-bible.html

The history of Islam is another: the quick, extensive conquests were followed
by an appropriation of the culture of Baghdad and Greece, a cultural and
racial melting-pot, and the promotion of science and technology, e.g.
irrigation of arid desert regions.

The French are proud of Napoleon's conquests; Alexander is called "the Great".

It's a bit much to see George W. Bush indicting Saddam on charges of Genocide,
when the US itself was established that way, not so long ago (remember the
Cowboys & Indians movies we all saw in the 1950?); and considering the
position of the Palestinians today, as well as Afghans, Iraqs, and anyone else
in the way of the British-American-Zionist coalition.

If Harappan civilization was Aryan, how come its writing died out?

This point is well made at the following page:
http://www.narthaki.com/board/messages/1856.html

{quote} Re: Aryan Invasion theory was not Fake:

... Posted by manoj (202.144.20.174) on November 14, 2003 at 13:53:35:

In Reply to: Aryan Invasion theory was Fake: posted by Visha_Mitra_Sishya on
September 16, 2003 at 14:11:17:

... One of the earliest known writing systems came from India, probably around
2500 BC. Unfortunately, we can't read the Harappan writing yet. But we know
people were using this writing to mark their property, so other people
couldn't steal it, and to keep track of things. The writing was in
pictographs, like Egyptian hieroglyphs.

After the Aryan invasion, about 1500 BC, the Harappan writing was forgotten,
and nobody in India could write at all for the next thousand years.

When people did start to write again, around 500 BC, it may have been an idea
they got from seeing Persians write. But the Indians did not use Persian
script. Instead, they used an alphabetic writing called Sanskrit. One of the
first things they wrote down was a poem called the Rig Veda. There were three
other Vedas as well but they are less famous. They also wrote down the
Upanishads ...
{endquote}

Today's Hinduism is not the religion of the Aryan invaders; it's an eclectic
mixture, which includes elements of the Shiva/Tantra religion of those the
Aryans conquered. Further, the ahimsa tradition (Jainism, Buddhism, and
comparable elements in Hinduism) came later, and is quite different from both.
Why, then, base India's future on just one of its cultural ancestors?

The religion of the Aryan invaders was a religion of sacrifice, especially
horse sacrifice, and of invader gods such as Indra, with big egos.

Today's Hinduism shrinks the ego. There is no sacrifice in Hindu temples
today; and the gods are, in the main, different from those Vedic ones. Gods of
the defeated peoples - Shiva, Ganesha, probably Kali, and others - have been
incorporated into the pantheon. They overcame their conquerors.

And a philosophical and ascetic reaction arose to prominence around 1000 BC,
viewing divinity in impersonal terms. The Upanishad literature of that time
was associated with the Jains & Buddhists. This, I believe, later led to
Pythagoreanism.

This new philosophy also appears in the most recent part of the Rig Veda, Book
X; it's mixed in with more martial material.

Those philosophical bits are the parts of the Rig Veda we find impressive
today, the parts most quoted.

My study of the Rig Veda is at http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/rig-veda.html

I think that the Brahmins should stop stressing continuity with the Vedic
religion; equally the Dalitstans should recognise that Hinduism is a fusion of
many religions, including theirs. It's no more a single entity than was the
religion of Ancient Egypt.

Australia's elite are split over the FTA with North America. Ross Garnaut of
ANU advocates unilateral Free Trade instead of regional blocs (item#2).
Yesterday's editorial in Murdoch's Australian was pro-FTA, but the Sydney
Morning Herald was against it.

Labor & the Greens are oppposing it. It's becoming an election issue:
Australia Up for Grabs. With a bit of luck, we'll stay out of both the Asian
bloc and NAFTA.

(1) Temple Mount Faithful letter to Pope demands return of Menorah

(2) Ross Garnaut: FTA worsens our woeful trade outlook

(3) "Heart and Soul" railway ... the new Ship of the Desert

(4) The Afghan Cameleers

(5) The Oodnadatta Track ... the original Ghan route

(6) Iraq oil sales in euros

(1) Temple Mount Faithful letter to Pope demands return of Menorah

http://www.templemountfaithful.org/News/20040209.htm

The Temple Mount Faithful Movement Letter to the Pope

The Temple Mount Faithful Movement sent a letter to the pope demanding the
immediate return to Israel of the Temple menorah, vessels and treasure. A call
to everyone in the world to send such a letter to the Pope.

Be'ezrat HaShem With the help of G-d

Pope John-Paul II The Vatican Rome

22 January 2004

Sir,

A call from the G-d and people of Israel:

Immediately return the Temple menorah, vessels and treasures to Yerushalaim!

In the Name of the G-d of Israel, you are requested to immediately return the
Jewish Temple Menorah and other Temple vessels and treasures to Jerusalem, to
the soon-to-be-rebuilt Temple.

As you well know, in 70 CE the Romans occupied the City of G-d, Yerushalaim,
and the Land of Israel and destroyed the Holy Temple of the G-d of Israel in
Yerushalaim. They took away with them to Rome the holy Seven-Branch Menorah
from the Temple and many other holy Temple vessels and treasures used by the
Jews in the worship in the Temple. The evil emperor, Titus, who destroyed the
Temple and burned it, built his Triumphal Arch in Rome on which is depicted
the Menorah and other vessels carried by Jewish captives. Since this terrible
event in the history of Israel and mankind, we know very well that the
Menorah, the vessels and the treasures that were taken to Rome have remained
in the vaults of the Vatican. Travellers and visitors to the Vatican
throughout history have reported seeing them.

This is the time to return these articles to Israel. Today, Israel is the most
exciting fulfilment of G-d's endtime prophecies and promises. The climax of
this prophetic time will be the soon rebuilding of the Temple exactly as the
prophets of Israel prophesied. ...

This is not a vision for the distant future but a very clear actual and
practical plan of G-d for the time in which we are now living. What G-d is now
doing for Israel in the land of Israel is an opening for this and the biggest
event ever which will take place in our lifetime. The Israeli Zionist
revolution of our time was brought about by G-d as a foundation on which will
be built all the endtime promises of G-d to Israel and all mankind and the
Temple, the House of G-d in the midst of it. The desire of G-d for this which
was expressed so excitingly in His Word to Israel: "And let them make a
sanctuary and I will dwell among them" (Exodus 25:8) which is very soon to
come to pass and this time it will have a significance to all mankind because
now He will also dwell among all His creation.

I am sending this letter in the name of the G-d of Israel and the Universe,
the G-d of my forefathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Who together with His
people Israel is now rebuilding His kingdom in the land which He promised to
them. The Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement, which is the
endtime vessel of G-d to fulfil His prophetic endtime vision, is today
answering the call of G-d to them: go to the Pope and tell him in my name -
let my holy Temple Menorah, vessels and treasures go! Return them immediately
to my people in Yerushalaim. We are looking forward to you answering this call
of G-d and immediately returning them to Yerushalaim to the Temple which will
soon be rebuilt.

Sincerely,

Gershon Salomon Chairman, The Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful
Movement

--------------------------

It is now three weeks since we sent the letter to the Pope in the Vatican in
Rome with a copy to the Vatican Embassy in Israel. As of now, no answer or
response has been received. Everyone who receives this letter or who reads it
on the Website is called on to send their own letter to the Pope demanding
that he immediately return the Temple Menora and vessels to Israel. Please
also ask your friends, family, and acquaintances to also send letters. The
Pope should know that there are millions of people in the world who demand
that he do so. Please write to him that he must not ignore this demand and
that he must do what a great emperor before him did. Cyrus the Persian King
obeyed the commandment of G-d and returned the vessels of the First Temple
which Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, carried off when he destroyed the
First Temple in Jerusalem. The G-d of Israel and the Universe blessed him for
this exactly as He promised to Abraham and his seed, Israel: "I will bless
those who bless you and curse those who curse you" (Genesis 12:3). ...

Cyrus even encouraged the Jewish people to rebuild the house of G-d in
Jerusalem, set them free from their captivity and sent them to the land of
Israel and Israel:

"And in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the L-rd by
the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the L-rd stirred up the spirit of
Cyrus king of Persia, so that he issued a proclamation throughout all his
kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying: Thus says Cyrus king of Persia,
The L-rd God of heaven has given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he has
charged me to build him an house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. ... " (Ezra 1)

In your letters, please ask the Pope to also obey the commandment of G-d and
to return to Israel the Temple Menorah and vessels which were taken to Rome
from the Second Temple after it was destroyed in 70CE. Tell him that G-d will
not allow him to ignore His commandment to him at this critical time of the
redemption of Israel and the Third Temple. G-d will no longer allow the Temple
Menorah and vessels to remain in Rome. If they are not immediately returned
willingly they will be returned to Israel under the judgement of the G-d of
Israel and the Universe.

Everyone who writes to the Pope about this matter will be blessed by G-d and
will have an important part in the redemption and rebuilding of the endtime
Temple of G-d in Jerusalem. If possible, please send us copies of your letters
to the Pope.

[ Published: 09 February 2004 ]

(2) Ross Garnaut: FTA worsens our woeful trade outlook

The Australian, February 10, 2004

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8633296%5E7583,00.html

AUSTRALIA'S dreadful trade problems have just become worse. The signing of a
poor Free Trade Agreement with the US will make it more difficult to correct
the longest period of declining exports for more than a century.

Official Australia has not yet faced up to the severity of the present trade
problem. Exports have declined in each of the past three years after 15 years
of sustained strong growth. Never in the 20th century did exports decline for
three years in a row - not even in the Great Depression of the 1930s or in
either of the world wars.

Australian domestic costs are rising much faster than those of our trading
partners. And a strong Australian dollar this year compounds the difficulties.
The early signs are that 2004 will see a fourth year of declining exports.

The focus on the US FTA over the past three years is only one of many reasons
for the poor export performance. The FTA's main effects are in the future. But
already the FTA has contributed to Australia's failure to dissuade the US from
a set of trade policy decisions over the past three years that are the most
damaging to Australia since World War II. Such policies are led by the steel
quotas (affecting Australian exports of steel and steel-making raw materials
to East Asia) and the egregiously protectionist US Farm Bill.

The US ambassador said at the time that the US Farm Bill was the price for the
President obtaining Congressional negotiating authority for the FTA. Given the
choice, Australian farmers would be quick to turn the clock back on that
"deal".

From January 1 this year, Australian farmers are starting to feel the effects
of discrimination against them in the Chinese market, as the "early harvest"
for the China-ASEAN FTA has its effect. The Chinese interest in discriminatory
FTAs follows the lead of the US and Australia in their own bilateral
discussions.

When Canada entered the North American Free Trade Agreement in 1994, its
exports to Asia and Europe collapsed, at a time when Australia's and the rest
of the world's exports to these regions were increasing.

Australian shares of European and Asian markets have been falling over the
past three years, and the "head-turning effect" may be part of the
explanation. It can be expected to become much stronger now that the
US-Australia deal has been signed, as it did in Canada in the second half of
the '90s.

The bigger effects will be longer term. The excitement about bilateral and
regional FTAs has starved the multilateral trade negotiations of oxygen. This
was apparent at the failure of the WTO ministerial meeting in Cancun five
months ago. US Trade Representative Bob Zoellick is now in East Asia trying to
revive the Doha Round negotiations. Two weeks of intense negotiations in
Washington on the Australian FTA is not the ideal preparation. This is a
betrayal of our farmers, as the multilateral negotiations alone are able to
deliver substantial liberalisation, including of subsidies, in the highly
protected markets in North America, Europe and East Asia.

For the first time, Australia has conceded the legitimacy of significant
agricultural exclusions from bilateral FTAs. In recent years, Canberra has
elevated the quest for an FTA including agriculture with Japan to the
forefront of its trade strategy with that country. After the events of the
weekend, forget about it.

What about the famous "$4billion" of benefits that the Government has been
claiming for Australia from the FTA? That $4billion number comes from a study
commissioned by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade from the Centre of
International Economics. The main costs of a bilateral FTA were excluded from
that study by assumption.

The $4billion, even in the terms of the CIE study, was actually less than
$3billion at today's exchange rates. The number was contested at the time.
Another study by ACIL Consulting came up with different and negative numbers.
But now we know some (but not much) of the detail that has been agreed, let's
take the CIE assumptions at face value, and see what survives of the "less
than $3 billion".

The majority of the gains in the study for DFAT come from Australia's own
reduction of barriers to American exports. We could have these gains, and much
more, without the costs of an FTA, by liberalising imports from all countries,
in a continuation of the unilateral liberalisation that was a feature of
Australian trade policy from the mid-1980s to 2000.

The part of the "less than $3 billion" that comes from America's own
liberalisation derives overwhelmingly from two products only: dairy and sugar.
The DFAT study assumes immediate and complete removal of quotas and tariffs on
all Australian agricultural exports to the US. Enough said.

It gets worse. The DFAT study removed by assumption the critically important
issues of "rules of origin". These are what a bilateral FTA, unlike
multilateral or unilateral liberalisation, needs to determine what products
qualify for preferential access. An Australian car or medical microscope will
only be able to enter the US under the FTA if there is more than a specified
amount of Australian and US value added in the production of the product.

We do not yet know much about the detail of how the rules of origin will work.
If the detail of the rules of origin turn out to be similar to those in NAFTA
-- and we do not yet know whether and how they will be different -- most
Australian manufactured products would be excluded because they would have too
many New Zealand, Asian and European components. Australian manufacturers
would be excluded unless they changed the way they made their goods. US
manufacturers, on the other hand, typically have higher proportions of
domestic value added in their goods, and would be more likely to qualify for
free entry to Australia.

Australia's trade malaise will be fixed only by renewing focus on our
competitiveness and sorting out the confusion in our trade policy. Any further
delay in sound diagnosis and prescription will compound the pain when reality
bites us.

Ross Garnaut, a former Australian ambassador to China and economics adviser to
prime minister Bob Hawke, is professor of economics at the Australian National
University in Canberra.
 

(3) "Heart and Soul" railway ... the new Ship of the Desert

The Ghan, the train that showed it can

By Steve Larkin

The Age, Melbourne, February 4, 2004

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/03/1075776059820.html

The train that never-never would, proved it could. The Ghan arrived in Darwin
yesterday after its 2979-kilometre inaugural journey from Adelaide, breaking
through a giant banner at Darwin Station at 5pm local time. ...

Thousands of locals lined the track to wave on the train in typical Aussie
fashion. Some chose to celebrate the historic journey by drinking a tinny and
waving while others chose to give a Top End welcome with their rear end.
Dozens of men and women flashed their backsides at the passing train. ...

The longest passenger train trip in Australian history left Adelaide on Sunday
... a 2000-tonne, one-kilometre-long procession with two locomotives and 43
carriages.

The journey was broken up with public celebrations in Port Augusta, Tennant
Creek and Katherine, where many locals were stunned at the sight of the train,
especially many Aboriginal children who had never seen a train before.

"This is the longest train I've ever seen. It is the only train I've ever
seen. So I guess it makes it the longest and the only train I've ever seen,"
said one man. ... ==

Thousands welcome Ghan
By Rebecca DiGirolamo

The Australian, February 04, 2004

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8578524%255E2702,00.html

THOUSANDS of people lined the rail track into Darwin last night as the Ghan
ended its inaugural journey from Adelaide, realising the 146-year-old dream to
transport passengers across the continent by train.

More than 2000 spectators with cameras and Australian flags forced the
locomotive to slow to 15km/h outside Darwin, making the 1.1km-long train 30
minutes late. ... The ochre-red locomotive was followed for 50km by an aerial
entourage of three helicopters before breaking through a symbolic archway at
Darwin rail station in front of 3000 spectators. ...

In Tennant Creek, at least 600 Warrumungu people welcomed the Ghan with
traditional dancing and singing.

"I've never seen a train before in my life," said 19-year-old Anne-Marie
Waistcoat.

"It's beautiful." ==

http://theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8558655%255E2702,00.html

A red carpet ride to Darwin

By Rebecca DiGirolamo

The Australian, February 02, 2004

... Driver Graham Dadleh boarded the train in Port Augusta and said steering
"the old ship towards the desert" for 410km was an ancient honour tracing a
150-year-old tradition. Mr Dadleh's great-grandfather was among the first
Afghan immigrants to operate the great camel-trains that opened up the north
of Australia. ==

(4) The Afghan Cameleers

http://www.southaustralianhistory.com.au/afghans.htm

The Afghan Camelmen.

Although the number of Afghans coming to Australia was small (no more than
3000) compared with other ethnic groups, their contribution to this country
has been much greater than most people realise. ...

With their camels ... these cameleers opened up the outback, helped with the
construction of the Overland Telegraph Line and Railways, erected fences,
acted as guides for several major expeditions, and supplied almost every
inland mine or station with its goods and services. These 'pilots of the
desert' made a vital contribution to Australia.

The first Afghans arrived in South Australia in 1838 when Joseph Bruce brought
out eighteen of them, one of whom died on 1 February 1840. When Bruce himself
died, the men were handed over to John Gleeson, who also had imported some of
them. The first camel arrived at Port Adelaide in 1840 but was shot in 1846
after it caused the death of explorer John Horrocks. As early as 1858 it was
suggested that camels should be imported into the colony and that a depot
should be established for their 'propagation and acclimation'. It led to the
formation of the Camel Troop Carrying Company Ltd which unsuccessfully
petitioned the govenment for financial aid in October 1858.

In 1862 Samuel Stuckey went to Karachi to bring out camels. He was
unsuccessful that time, but in 1866 he succeeded in bringing out more than a
hundred camels and, as nobody knew how to handle camels, 31 Afghan cameleers
as well.

Although these, and later camelmen, came from different ethnic groups and from
vastly different places such as Baluchistan, Kashmir, Sind, Rajastan, Egypt,
Persia, Turkey and Punjab, they were collectively known as Afghans. ...

One early arrival was Hadji Mulla Merban from Kandabar, Afghanistan. He came
to Port Darwin and acted as leader among the Afghan cameldrivers working for
the Overland Telegraph Line. After a three year visit to India and Afghanistan
he eventually settled in Adelaide. He married a European woman and acted as a
peace maker between his country men, once settling a dispute between Abdul
Wade and Gunny Khan, two wealthy camel owners. With the completion of the
Adelaide Mosque in Gilbert Street in 1888 he also became the spiritual leader
of the Afghan community in South Australia. He was buried at Coolgardie in
1897.

Many of these Afghans did extremely well in their chosen business. Abdul Wade
had four hundred camels and sixty men working for him. Fuzzly Ahmed worked the
Port Augusta - Oodnadatta line for many years before moving to Broken Hill.
Faiz Mahomet, who arrived at the age of 22, settled in Marree where he
operated as a Fowarding Agent and General Carrier. In 1892 he moved to Western
Australia and worked from the Coolgardie gold fields with his brother Tagh
Mahomet. ...

Port Augusta Dispatch September 1888.

Wherever these Afghan cameleers settled, they lived in a separate part of
town. Consequently many inland towns had three distinct sections, one for the
Europeans, one for the Aborigines and a third section for the Afghans. Their
areas became known as Afghan or Ghan Town. ...

Marree, with its high concentration of Afghans, was soon referred to as Little
Asia. It also became the centre for inland transport with camel strings
leaving regularly for the Birdsville, Oodnadatta and Strzelecki tracks, Broken
Hill, the Northern Territory and the Western Australian gold fields. ... ...

A lasting legacy of the Afghans are the date palms which they planted wherever
they went and the Ghan which was named after them. ===

http://www.dulwichcentre.com.au/afghans.html

Afghan histories in Australia

... In the mid-nineteenth century Afghan camelmen played a critical role in
opening up the vast Australian outback to Europeans. In these times camel
trains were a crucial life support system to outback communities. The
cameleers came from Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Turkish empire and their
labour and skills in hot, dry arid conditions made possible a number of key
projects including the Overland Telegraph Line between Adelaide and Darwin,
the Queensland Border Fence, the Transcontinental railway Line between Port
Augusta, South Australia and Kalgoorlie, Western Australia, and the Rabbit
Proof fence and Canning Stock Route in Western Australia. Cameleers were also
vital to the early wool and mining industries What's more, some of the
exploratory expeditions which traversed the most inhospitable parts of
Australia only survived due to the expertise and endurance of the cameleers in
the hot and waterless land (they were also dependent upon Indigenous
Australian skill and knowledge of country).

There are still remnants of these Afghan histories in many Australian cities -
the date palms in Alice Springs, cemeteries in Broken Hill, Marree, Coolgardie
and elsewhere, and mosques in Adelaide and Perth. Camel races continue in
various parts of the country, while the train line that connects southern
Australia to Alice Springs is still referred to as the 'Ghan' in honour of the
early contributions to this country of Afghan people. And, of course, camels
themselves remain an enduring part of life in northern Australia. ... ==

(5) The Oodnadatta Track ... the original Ghan route

SOUTH AUSTRALIA

OONADATTA TRACK: (619 Km.) http://www.wilmap.com.au/samaps/oodnadatta.html

(Begins at Marree 647m. north of Adelaide)

The Oodnadatta Track is an alternative route from Adelaide to Alice Springs
and mainly follows the route taken by explorer John McDouall Stuart between
Marree and Marla on his epic crossing of the continent from south to north in
1862. It passes through Willam Creek and Oodnadatta and follows what was the
route for the Overland Telegraph line which joiuned Australia with Java and
Europe. It was also the route for the original 'Ghan' railway line between
Adelaide and Alice Springs finished in 1829. It is unsealed for its duration
and has sandy patches.

... COWARD SPRINGS: The ruins of the old railway siding at Coward Springs is
an oasis in the desert with warm water emerging and forming an extensive pond.
Date palms, remnants of an old plantation, provide a refuge for many birds
which frequent the area. A commercial campsite with limited facilities
operates from May to October.

BERESFORD: The old Bersford railway siding was one of the sites along the line
which had giant water softeners to prepare water for the steam locomotives. ...

WILLIAM CREEK: (851 km. north of Adelaide) William Creek is a pub on one of
South Australia's largest cattle station, Anna Creek. Accommodation, meals and
takeaway food are available as is a cold beer. A public telephone, fuel and
basic supplies are available at the hotel. Camping is allowed next to the
hotel. There is an annual Picnic Race Meeting each April.

A road from William Creek to the west leads to the Opal mining centre of
Coober Pedy, 166km away.

{Coober Pedy is the town where everyone lives underground, in dug-out houses.
There's an underground church, and an underground motel, and underground
backpackers' hostels}

==To travel on the Ghan: http://www.northernterritoryholidays.com.au/ghan/ghan2.html

In Darwin, don't miss Mindil Beach market, on Thursday nights.

Also of interest in the Darwin area are the crocodile-feeding cruises on the
Adelaide River, the eagle-flying and feeding sessions at Territory Wildlife
Park, and Litchfield National Park.

(6) Iraq oil sales in euros

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:30:59 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: rainesco@earthlink.net

 [[Engdahl said: "The only exception [[dollar v. euro oil sales]] in recent
years was Saddam in November 2000 where he did a deal with France for sale in
euros. Some say that was one factor in Bush regime change though I think only
a minor one at this point."

That doesn't comport with other sources which are pretty specific. It wasn't
just some french sales. The New York office of BNP Paribas was handling the
account, however. The post-2000 dollar accounts are probably only residual
holdings, since Iraq was having trouble getting contracts approved. I do not
know if all post-Saddam oil sales were switched back to USD. One would presume so.]]

http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/2000/11/iraq-001114a.htm

(November 14, 2000)

The Office of the Iraq Programme (OIP), which coordinates the "oil-for-food"
scheme that allows Baghdad to use a portion of its oil revenues to purchase
humanitarian goods, said the issuance of letters of credit for the purchase of
Iraqi oil in euro denominations came into effect on 7 November.

"From now on the Iraq oil will be sold in euros," Hasmik Egian, a spokesman
for the Office, told the UN News Service. "A bank account has been opened in
euros," she added. =======

http://www.notinournames.org.uk/phonewave/quick.html

(November 2001)

As at 27 July, $1.9 billion and 1.3 billion euros in unused funds were
available in the UN account 'for the issuance of additional letters of credit
for the purchase of humanitarian supplies and oil spare parts and equipment by
the Government of Iraq.' These figures (which amount to about $3 bn in total)
apparently include monies for contracts approved by the UN for which BNP-
Paribas (the bank in New York where the oil- for- food monies are deposited by
the UN) has yet to receive the relevant notification from the Central Bank of
Iraq for the issuance of letters of credit. =======

http://www.un.org/Depts/oip/background/latest/bvs020529annex_i.htm

Annex I

Allocation of total oil revenue among the various funds and corresponding
expenditures, as at 30 April 2002

1. As at 30 April 2002, 4.08 billion euros had been deposited into the account
for phase XI, as authorized under Security Council resolution 1382 (2001),
bringing the total oil sale revenue since the inception of the programme to
$37.33 billion and 18.25 billion euros.

2. The allocation of total oil proceeds received since the inception of the
programme to date and the corresponding expenditures as at 30 April 2002 are
as follows:

(a) The sums of $19.65 billion and 10.48 billion euros have been allocated for
the purchase of humanitarian supplies by the Government of Iraq, as specified
in paragraph 8 (a) of resolution 986 (1995). In addition, $1.43 billion and
524.6 million euros of interest earned in these accounts were available for
the purchase of humanitarian supplies in the central and southern governorates
of Iraq. Letters of credit issued by the BNP-Paribas, on behalf of the United
Nations, amounted to approximately $21.64 billion and 9.31 billion euros for
humanitarian supplies and oil industry spare parts for Iraq; payments amounted
to $16.97 billion and 2.47 billion euros under phases I to XI; =======

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200206/17/eng20020617_97988.shtml

(June 12, 2002)

... the office administering the U.N. oil-for-food program said in a report
issued on June 11 that Iraq's oil exports shrank from 15.3 million barrels to
2.6 million barrels during the week ending on June 7.

Iraq earned only an estimated 60 million euros (some 55 million dollars) in
revenues, a sharp drop from the 355 million euros (some 333 million dollars)
in the previous week, the report said. =======

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,6903,896202,00.html

(February 16, 2003)

Almost all of Iraq's oil exports under the United Nations oil-for-food
programme have been paid in euros since 2001. Around 26 billion euros
(£17.4bn) has been paid for 3.3 billion barrels of oil into an escrow account
in New York.

The Iraqi account, held at BNP Paribas, has also been earning a higher rate of
interest in euros than it would have in dollars.

At the time of the change the UN issued a report saying that the move could
cost Iraq up to £270 million. Independent experts questioned the value of
buying into a plummeting currency.

'It was seen as economically bad because the entire global oil trade is
conducted in dollars,' says Fadhil Chalabi, executive director of the Centre
for Global Energy Studies.

The marked appreciation of the euro, higher interest rates, and the ability to
pay mainly European suppliers in euros is believed to have made hundreds of
millions for the Iraqi oil-for-food programme.

Peter Myers, 21 Blair St, Watson ACT 2602, Australia
http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers          ph +61 2 62475187
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