1. Hutton Gibson talks about the 'Holocaust'

2. Wall Street's Financial Terrorism

3. Islam was an illegal religion because the Koran preached violence against
Christians and Jews, a Christian group told a judge yesterday, 19 February 2004

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 8:09 PM
Subject: Transcript of Hutton Gibson Interview

Dedicated to Freedom of the Press, Investigative Reporting and Revisionist History

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Michael A. Hoffman II, Editor

Feb. 20, 2004

Editor's Note: The following is an alleged transcript of a radio
interview with Hutton Gibson, Mel Gibson's father

Interview: Hutton Gibson



Major excerpts of telephone Interview on Monday, Feb. 16, 2004, 8 p.m.
between Hutton Gibson, father of Mel Gibson, and Steve Feuerstein,
executive producer and talk show host, "Speak Your Piece!" WSNR-620AM.
The two-part feature on The Gibson Family: 

Offspring of Hate? 

will air on "Speak Your Piece!" on Monday, Feb. 23 and Wednesday, Feb. 25 from 10
p.m. to midnight on WSNR-620AM and live on the Internet at


Transcript courtesy of Steve Feuerstein



GIBSON: In the first place the Holocaust is a terrible misnomer. First
of all a Holocaust is a burnt offering to G-d. Now these people were not
offering themselves up to G-d. If these people were being killed they
were being taken there screaming howling and yelling for they were being
persecuted and murdered. That is not a Holocaust. 

Secondly there were
not that many Jews under Hitler's power under his sway. They claimed
that there were 6.2 million in Poland before the war and after the war
there were 200,000; therefore he (Hitler) must have killed six million
of them. They simply got up and left! They were all over the Bronx and
Brooklyn and Sydney and Los Angeles.

Everybody was out to get Hitler ... but you know he was not that
efficient. I've known a lot of Germans. The society I went to school to
were Germans and they were thorough they were good teachers. They were
efficient and they know how to do things. If they had set out to kill
six million Jews they would have done it. But all we hear about is
Holocaust survivors. "Oh, we know it happened, cause over there is a
survivor. Oh, my mother and father were survivors," they say.

This is absolutely ridiculous. And (the Holocaust) it's all - may not
all fiction - but most of it is. For instance the gas chambers and
crematoria at Auschwitz would not do the job. Do you know what it takes
to get rid of a dead body? To cremate it? It takes a liter of petrol and
20 minutes - now six million of them? They (the Germans) did not have
the gas to do it. That's why they lost the war.

Regarding the gas chamber, the gas was going the wrong way. You see it
was going down instead of up....



GIBSON: You see the concentration camps were filled with people who had
to be fed. And when they did bomb the tracks they could not see them any
more. And that's where you're supposed Holocaust came in. You see these
were work camps.

Guess who owned the railroads? The Jews ... IG Farben Industries was
never touched, it was making munitions and doing all things to keep them
in the war.... The Group Works they also weren't bombed. All they had to
do was bomb the group works but they were owned by the Jews. They owned
the tracks and the banks so you don't bomb your own stuff. They owned
the banking, the banking system. Hitler's big crime was operating
without the big banks (and the Jews). Just like Russia it had to go
since it had no debt.



GIBSON: Came the war (WWII) and I knew my Roosevelt. I knew he would get
us into it. So I volunteered. My combat time consisted of four months in
Guadalcanal. We all ended up with malaria, it never goes away. I was
with the 132nd infantry. They were holding a perimeter of an airstrip.
The marines came in and mowed the place, flattened it out.

We flattened out the area before the Japs came in. The Japs you know
can't adapt. They come into a situation and they don't change their
orders they simply continue and do what they're told. An officer
(Japanese) stands there and he points two this way and two that way.
Anyway, the marines in the area never heard so much fire in their life
rifle fire or whatever type of fire. In the morning there were 800 dead
Japs in the open field that they hoped to sneak through. And the next
night the fools didn't do any better the fools came back and lost 700
and the third night after they lost 600. We had to clean up the bodies
each morning so they could have room to move in the next day.

During WWII they were giving us this jazz. They said we were attacked.
Well alright but we didn't realize that at that time the attack was a
put up job by "the man" - I am talking about our beloved FDR who had
practically forced the Japanese to attack and destroy the entire Pacific
Fleet. They knew they were coming in Washington. FDR pushed us into the

It was FDR's own private war. He went there for money. The money power
that runs this country. The Fed Reserve and those foreign bankers who
own our currency and charge us for it. The foreign bankers who run the
international reserve like the Rothschilds and their allies in this
country like the Rockefellers who were Jews and others who own the

We have given the whole control to the Fed Reserve. [Fed Chairman Alan]
Greenspan tells us what to do. Someone should take him out and hang him.
The Ford Foundation, Rockefeller Foundation, the Carnegies are all
communists. They are enemies of the country. When they want to pull the
plug on us we're going down the drain.

There is a book out not too long ago listing the big Jewish families in
the country which lists the Rockefellers as Jewish and there was no



GIBSON: There are too many survivors. It's just a gimmick to collect

They have to go where there is money. There is no way they would come to
West Virginia. They have to have some place to go that has money. They
didn't work in the mines, you can bet your boots...no, they don't work
anywhere where they can out of it. They're great pencil pushers, they
are the superior people and therefore they are entitled to the top jobs,
supervisory stuff and so on, because they hire each other. They have so
much influence in the banks for instance. They all look out for one
another you got to give them that. They are at the same time willing to
sacrifice a few of theirs if it helps...



Why all the reparations? It's an irresistible chance to make
money. All those Holocaust museums put up at our expense with our
taxpayer dollars.



GIBSON: I don't know what their (the Jews') agenda is except that it's
all about control. They're after one world religion and one world
government. That's why they've attacked the Catholic Church so strongly,
to ultimately take control over it by their doctrine and make one world
religion and one world government.



"The rabbi for hire" that's even what the Jews refer to him as.
He had one of these snarley voices. These people are vengeancebound.
They will chase down people like [John] Demjanjuk [cleared in Israel of
charges of being a Nazi guard]. They almost got him killed and
eventually it was proved innocent of all charges. Yeah, Ivan the
Terrible, they said.



GIBSON: This is part of their deal ... they don't want this movie shown,
they don't care if the movie is anti-Semitic or not, or if it is
straight history. Mel says he absolutely couldn't buy PR like this. And
(thanks to the ADL) everybody knows the line now: Let the blood be upon
us and our children.



GIBSON: And anyway somebody said why do you suppose he (the Pope)
approved the movie? I said what do you think he would say when it comes
out and he disapproved it.

The ones that we have there (in the Vatican) are all involved in the
(Jewish) plot.

The need of the Vatican endorsement wasn't, it just wasn't needed at
all. The only reason they went over is that the ADL had threatened to
take the film over and show it to them. They would have to steal it to
do so ... they did already. One of the guys in the office said why don't
we take it over to the Vatican and show it to them anyway cause they
wanted to see it and they did want to see it. And Mel said "OK let's
take it over and show it to them." They were not after any accolade.
They just wanted to take it away from the ADL who was going to go in
there and put some pressure on like they can and get a condemnation of

No, no we had no idea of helping out the Vatican in any way. You see
here we have what we call a hostile witness. As Mel said while they were
on the way over, "What is he going to say is he going to condemn it
because when it comes out he'll show what a big ass he is." What the
heck could he say? The Jews were going to take it to the Vatican ...
this was the argument from one his producers there, Steve McEveety. Mel
said "Go ahead. Let us do it." The ADL might have even taken a few shots
themselves and shown the Pope something that was not in the film. There
is nothing these guys would not do...



GIBSON: They (the Sanhedrin) had a good thing going in the temple, they
were selling the victims to be sacrificed. And he went in and overturned
their tables, he tried once before but this they had enough reason to
get rid of him. That's one of the charges they put against him that he
put himself equal to G-d. And this is blasphemy and therefore it
deserves death.

They knew what he was after and they were killing him just for that.
They cannot admit that they were wrong. They have been at it for all of

Is the Jew still actively anti-Christian - He is, for by being a Jew, he
is anti everyone else.


GIBSON CONTINUES: They are the people with an eye for eye and tooth for
a tooth. They must have revenge. You know they (the Jews) caused the
Roman persecutions too. They called attention to the fact that the
Christians were refusing to offer incense to the emperors when the
emperors became gods. The Jews were notable for getting the wood to burn
the Christians...a labor of love you could say.

To a Jew a Christian commits idolatry every time he looks at a crucifix
and says a prayer. You know they're in control and they're going to get in
control the way things are going. Because they get all of our
people...They killed several generations of us Americans (referring to
WWWI, WWII)...The Jews weren't in the army much in WWI that because they
were fomenting a revolt in Russia. America had no right to fight in
foreign wars (in reference to WWI and WWII).



We're going to have to do something now in this country because
that government is useless. There's a line the Declaration of
where somebody abolishes or sets aside or misgoverns, it is
our privilege the constitution, it is the people's obligation to abolish
that government. I think there is a way... There is a bloodless way to
do it if we can swing it: secession. Just get all states to secede from
the government and leave it there high and dry.

The alternative is eventually they are going to clamp down on us and we
are going to have the same terror and we are going to have to revolt
with a gun or we are going to face the same (governmental)
terror...We're going to have to do something fairly soon because the
longer it goes, the more power they get and the less we have.

Economic Reform Australia
ERA Information Network

Date: Friday, 20 February, 2004
Relayed by: janice <janice_g@free.net.nz>
Subject: Wall Street's Financial Terrorism
Source: MAI-NOT network <owner-mai-not@flora.org>

Wandering through the archives today and found this article. Its so
near to where I'm at in terms of uncovering exactly who and what lay
behind so many  20th century conflicts and wars and when and how
the NWO was conceived,  that I felt it needs another airing. I also
feel these articles are important in understanding where we are at, 
where we have been and where we are going.   Janus

Published in: CHRONICLES - A Magazine of American Culture
Volume 22, No. 3, March 1998

by Bob Djurdjevic

Parallels between the British Empire and the New World Order Empire are
striking.  It's just that the British crown relied on brute force to
achieve its objectives, while the NWO elite mostly use financial
terrorism (except for occasional raw power demonstrations, such as in
the Gulf War or in Bosnia).  The Great Asian Banking Crisis has just
accentuated both the similarities and the differences between the two

The British Empire was built by colonizing other countries, seizing
their natural resources, and shipping them to England to feed the
British industrialists' factories.  In the wake of the "red coats"
invasions, local cultures were often trampled and replaced by a "more
progressive" British way of life.

The Wall Street-dominated NWO Empire is being built by colonizing other
countries with foreign loans or investments.  When the fish is firmly on
the hook, the NWO financial terrorists pull the plug, leaving the
unsuspecting victim high and dry.  And begging to be rescued.  In comes
the International Monetary Fund (IMF).  Its bailout recipes -
privatization, trade liberalization and other austerity reforms - amount
to seizing the target countries' natural and other resources, and
turning them over to the NWO elites - just as surely as the British
Empire did by using cruder methods.

"We cannot help but question the IMF's attitude. The IMF is acting as if
it is an economic conqueror," the governing Grand National Party of
Korea declared on December 4.  Korean newspaper headlines also lamented
the country's humiliation over the $57-billion IMF rescue package.
"South Korea has virtually lost its economic sovereignty for the next
three years," said the Joongang Ilbo.

In the wake of the IMF invasions, local cultures are also under assault
world over, just as in Queen Victoria's time, being replaced by the
"more progressive Western" (read materialistic) way of life.

Whether McDonald's, Coca-Cola, Nike or the Hollywood film studios really
represent a "progressive" culture is a dubious notion even in the U.S.,
let alone in East Asia, Russia or elsewhere in the world.  Just as is
the perception that these multinational companies are "American" -
presumably because of their headquarters' U.S. addresses.  The truth of
the matter is that these "Princes of the 20th Century" honor only one
flag - the Almighty $$ Dollar.  As a result, the Main Street Americans
are among the NWO's exploited victims, just as are their brethren in
East Asia or Russia.

Such misconceptions aside, there is no question, that McDonald's, Coke,
Nike or Hollywood represent the visible symbols of the NWO's
neo-colonialism.  They are the innocent-looking facades which mask the
destructive work of Wall Street's financial terrorists which operate
deep in the bowels of national economies.

"The financial turmoil in East Asia is a case in point," Malaysia's
Prime Minister, Dr. Mahathir Mohamad, said on November 24 at the APEC
(Asia Pacific Economic Community) conference in Vancouver, Canada.  "Two
decades of growth was wiped out in two weeks... Vibrant economies have
been reduced to begging for aid from the IMF."  Dr. Mahathir added that
the free markets were "a recipe for slavery."

True.  But during the post-Cold War market globalization and expansion
(1990-1996), the Asia/Pacific region attracted about $375 billion in
foreign investments, according to UNCTAD, a United Nations agency.
That's about 74 cents of every dollar the multinational companies had
invested anywhere in the developing world ($505 billion).  And it is
almost a quarter of all foreign investments made in the world during the
same period ($1.6 trillion - including the developed countries).

The rate of growth of the Asia/Pacific investments was also the highest
in the world - 29 percent compounded annually during the 1990s, almost
double that for the world as a whole (16 percent compounded annually).
And then the bubble burst in the fall of 1997, and the recriminations

"Power corrupts," Dr. Mahathir lamented in Vancouver.  "As much as
government can become corrupt when invested with absolute power, markets
can also become corrupt when equally absolutely powerful.  We are seeing
the effect of that absolute power today - the impoverishment and misery
of millions of people and their eventual slavery."

Also true.  But too late for East Asia.  And for Dr. Mahathir, whose
country is supposed to host the next APEC conference.  Because GREED and
quest for POWER of the East Asian leaders has already enslaved them.
"Dr. Mahathir, et. al." should have thought about that BEFORE taking the
NWO bait (money).  Now that they are a penny short and a day late,
remorse won't save them from the NWO/IMF brutal collection methods,
anymore than pleading for mercy would work with Mafia debt enforcers.
Witness the quick buckling under of Indonesia, Thailand and Korea, for
example, and even of  Japan.  The once powerful and petulant "Asian
Tigers" are all turning into obedient pets, wagging their tails fast and
furiously to please the NWO masters.

But "one man's loss is another man's gain," they say.  The enormous
flight of capital from East Asia, about $1.3 trillion between mid-August
and late-November (the aggregate reduction in total capitalization of
the 11 East Asian stock exchanges), has landed mostly on the U.S. and
European shores.  This positive cashflow (from the Euro-American
perspective) has temporarily helped stabilize the Western stockmarkets
after the October 27 crash.

Also, Bill Clinton, that unabashed champion of the Wall Street elite's
causes, was all smiles at the Vancouver summit.  He reveled in the
triumph which APEC's endorsement of the IMF represented.  Clinton even
confidently predicted that he would eventually overcome his recent
setback when he and Newt Gingrich failed in their efforts to cajole,
bribe or muscle the majority of the House into approving the "fast
track" trade bill.

But the victory which Clinton delivered to his Wall Street and Big
Business backers at the APEC summit was a loss for America's Main
Street, including the small U.S. entrepreneurs - by far the most vibrant
and productive element of the U.S. economy.  They created 21 million
American jobs in the 1980s, while the FORTUNE 500 companies downsized to
the tune of three million people, according to a Wall Street Journal
report.  For their efforts, these American Main Street eager-beavers are
about to be hit again by our NWO-controlled  government - to help fund
the Wall Street elite's Asian bailouts.

Lest we forget, the IMF is a Western GOVERNMENT-supported "bank" in
which  the U.S. taxpayer is by far the largest guarantor.  When Clinton,
Gingrich, and other U.S. globalist politicians tell us that the IMF
solution is the way to solve the current Asian banking crisis, they
forget to mention that about 40 cents of every IMF bailout dollar comes
out of the U.S. taxpayer's pockets.  Just like they forgot in the
Mexican bailout in early 1995.

Thanks to their control of the U.S. media, the NWO elite and their
fair-haired boy - Bill Clinton - are still able to claim credit for the
recent strength of the U.S. economy, while helping themselves to the
pockets of the true American Main Street entrepreneurs - by using PUBLIC
funds to bail out PRIVATE interests in FOREIGN countries.  Out ELECTED
politicians get to make the calls about things like using taxpayers'
money for private rescue missions.  The NWO's APPOINTED proxies in the
Clinton cabinet do.

Case in point: On October 30, U.S. Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin  (a
former Wall Street tycoon), reportedly called the top Treasury and White
House officials to tell them that he had agreed to contribute $3 billion
of U.S. taxpayers' money to the IMF bailout of Indonesian banks.  Get
this - the Treasury Secretary told the President what sort of a deal HE
had cut with his Wall Street banking pals!  This kind of sums up who is
really running this country and for whose benefit.

And these Wall Street and Washington hyenas will help themselves to a
few more tens of billions of dollars before the Great Asian Bailout is

The money needed to resuscitate other Asian countries could amount to
more than $100 billion, double the Mexican rescue of 1995, according to
a Business Week report last November.  The potential price tag involves
not only the $40 billion commitment to Indonesia, but an additional $23
billion to Thailand and the Philippines.  Financial markets are now
betting that Korea, where debt-choked companies have also triggered a
banking crisis, and the government is running low on foreign reserves,
will need as much as $40 billion to clean up its mess.

Six of the top 30 corporations in Korea have filed for bankruptcy this
year alone.  If all of the bad loans were written off, the entire equity
of Seoul's commercial banks would disappear.  But not just of Korean
banks.  The Japanese banks are also on the hook to the "Asian tigers"
for some $263 billion; the European banks for about $155 billion, while
the American banks have lent them some $55 billion.

But the biggest troubles may be brewing in Japan and China, the largest
Asian markets.  Japan is in line for "a truly world class banking
crisis," a world authority on international finance predicted in an
interview with the Australian Financial Times. Dr. Morris Goldstein, the
former deputy head of research for the International Monetary Fund, now
with the Institute for International Economics in Washington DC, said
that "systemic risk" is the highest in Japan.  Subsequent failures of
Hokkaido Takushoku Bank, of the 100-year old Yamaichi Securities, of and
of Tokuy Bank bore out the validity of Dr. Goldstein's forecast.  In
late November, Moody's also downgraded the credit ratings of Long Term
Credit Bank of Japan, Nippon Credit Bank, Mitsui Trust, Yasuda Trust and
Chuo Trust.

A Jardine Fleming report suggested that the non-performing loans held by
all Japanese banks could account for almost 23 percent of Japan's gross
domestic product - a level surpassing even Thailand's failures (13
percent).  The notorious US savings and loan crisis was insignificant by
comparison.  The cost to the public sector of solving that crisis was
"only" around 3 percent of the GDP.  Jardine Fleming estimates that the
ultimate cost to the Japanese government will be 11 percent of the GDP
or about $500 billion.  No question that would be "a truly world class

Then there's China, that darling of the NWO globalist elite.  During the
1990s, China attracted $158 billion of foreign investments, more than
any other country in the world except for the U.S., according to UNCTAD,
a United Nations agency  Japan, by contrast, got only about $8 billion
during the same period.  During the 1990s, foreign capital spending in
China had grown at a compound annual rate of 52 percent - more than
three times faster than the average world increase of 16 percent per

And the pace of investment in China had been accelerating.  In 1996
alone, China received over $42 billion in foreign investments.  That's
about one-third of all investments made in the developing countries last
year.  And no wonder.  The master bailer had helped set the bait for the
victims of its future bailouts.  In September 1996, the IMF predicted
that Asia would lead the world in 1997 with an 8 percent GDP growth.

Now that a financial tsunami has hit Asia, and as analysts and
economists scramble to lower their Asia forecasts, investors' enthusiasm
is starting to ebb even in China.  Foreign investments contracted by
about 35 percent in the first 10 months of 1997, in part because China's
top banks have about $90 billion in problem loans.  Despite nearly two
decades of economic reform, the Chinese state still owns about 30
percent of the economy, employs two-thirds of the urban work force, and
accounts for more than 50 percent of industrial assets, according to an
October report by the Sunday Telegraph of London.  There are more than
300,000 state enterprises in China, and at least half are in debt.  To
an economist, these behemoths cry out for sweeping reform, the Telegraph
concluded.  Read - PRIVATIZATION, downsizing and layoffs, the IMF

The country is wallowing in excess manufacturing capacity, and real
estate in Shanghai and Beijing has been over-built.  A British visitor
who has recently returned from a trip to China wrote to me on Nov. 6
that a member of the Shanghai Real Estate Board enthusiastically
proclaimed: "Shanghai property is hot."  To which the Briton replied:
"No, Shanghai property is empty."  The newly built malls and commercial
buildings which she had visited "were all eerily empty."

Why? Because the foreign investors had talked themselves into spending
hundreds of billions of dollars against the grossly inflated Asian
economic growth projections.  And because the greedy local chieftains
had talked themselves into believing that they can buy economic
prosperity with borrowed money.  Now that the bubble has burst in Asia,
both bankers and politicians are talking containment.  Which is why
Clinton agreed at the APEC summit in Vancouver to hold a global
conference on the banking crisis.

Meanwhile, while the financial elite debate how best to protect
themselves by using public funds, much more than jobs and real estate
are at stake in China and its neighbors in East Asia.  When factories
falter so do cheap or free education, medical care, housing, and the
broader sense of community that is part of urban life.  In Tianjin, for
example, an industrial city an hour's drive from Beijing, some families
have been plunged into poverty almost overnight after being laid off,
the Telegraph reported.  All this has led the London Telegraph to
conclude that "China edges to the brink of a social breakdown" as tens
of millions of Chinese workers face unemployment or even starvation.  We
always hear about these communist victims, but the same fate awaits the
tens of millions of workers in Korea, Japan, Thailand, Indonesia... They
will bear brunt of The Great Asian Banking Crisis, not the NWO bankers
and politicians who caused it.  Stories about such a human impact of
NWO's financial terrorism have been woefully absent from the front pages
of the world's newspapers.

The recent stories about Asia also do not discuss the role of the big
Japanese investors who, with the ailing banks, owned $291 billion of
U.S. Treasury bills as of last July, or (8.5 percent of bills

That's up from 5.4 percent or $176 billion as of December 1994.  In
other words, in today's intricately interwoven global financial system,
it is virtually impossible that a failure of the Japanese banking system
would not affect other countries, including the U.S.  We've already seen
how a stockmarket crisis which began in Hong Kong soon spread like a
wildfire  around the globe.  Even if the fire seems to be temporarily
under control now, thanks in part to the Asian crisis (flight of
capital), we are evidently not out of the woods yet.

Maybe that's why the U.S. Treasury Secretary, Rubin, warned his Japanese
counterpart in a private letter, disclosed by the New York Times on
November 13, that the Japanese "should not be tempted to export their
way out of their troubles."  Which is kind of like telling a drowning
victim to keep gulping water instead of swimming.

Rubin is concerned (and rightly so) because one effect of the industrial
globalization has been a huge U.S. trade deficit, which stood at $192
billion in 1996.  And if current trends continue, America's trade
deficit with the rest of the world could expand to $250 billion to $300
billion by early 1999, according to David Hale, a trade economist with
Zurich Insurance Group.

As of August, the U.S. trade deficit with China ($5.2 billion), for
example, was even bigger than that with Japan ($4.5 billion), or that
with the entire Western Europe and Canada - combined! ($3.6 billion).
In 1997 to-date, our deficit with China is running 30 percent ahead of
last year's pace.

So Rubin's remark seems to have been driven by a parochial concern -
losing market share to low priced imports from Japan or other Asian
countries.  Yet those are precisely the benefits to consumers which the
NWO globalists have hailed during the recent debate on "fast track"
trade legislation.  "Free trade" advocates evidently have no trouble
talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Another important conclusion one can draw from Rubin's remark is that,
if the Japanese are not allowed by the NWO Empire to export their way
out of trouble, then they may have no choice but to dump their huge U.S.
T-bills holdings and other U.S. securities so as to feed the Nippon
banking beast.  And if the Japanese pull out of the U.S., that would
hardly be good news for the stockmarket, would it?

If you are a Wall Street investor, stand by for a few more
roller-coaster rides of the Dow.  But if you are a Main Street
entrepreneur or worker, brace yourself for a possibility of a global
recession.  "If it (recession) spreads (from Korea) to Japan, then it
goes all over the world," a Korean  analyst told the Sydney Morning

What goes around, comes around - especially in globally integrated
markets. The U.S. is no exception, just as the British Empire wasn't.
The only question is if the social unrest caused by the gouging of the
NWO elite may also become a global affair and the ultimate downfall of
the NWO.

Bob Djurdjevic is a market researcher and consultant who analyzes
global economic and geopolitical affairs (http://www.djurdjevic.com). 
He is also the founder of Truth in Media, a non-profit organization


By Barney Zwartz
Religion Editor
February 20, 2004

Islam was an illegal religion because the Koran preached violence against
Christians and Jews, a Christian group told a judge yesterday.

The group's barrister, David Perkins, said that Christianity was established
under Australia's constitution and had special protection, especially
through the blasphemy law.

Mr Perkins told the Victorian and Civil Administrative Tribunal that if the
state's new religious hatred law intended to fetter the teaching of
Christian doctrine it was invalid.

Victoria's Racial and Religious Tolerance Act 2001 referred to lawful
religion, and it was in that sense, he said, that by preaching violence
Islam was disqualified.

"The Koran contradicts Christian doctrine in a number of places and, under
the blasphemy law, is therefore illegal," he said.

In the first case under the act, the Islamic Council of Victoria has
complained that Catch the Fire Ministries, Pastor Danny Nalliah and speaker
Daniel Scot, also a pastor, vilified Muslims at a seminar in March 2002.

Opening the defence yesterday, Mr Perkins said Christianity was embedded in
the constitution.

He said the law still entitled Christian religious principles to a special

He said the reference in the constitution to the people "humbly relying on
the blessing of Almighty God" referred to Christianity and was inserted at
the request of Christians.

He said Australia's blasphemy law - still in force, if little used - took
precedence over the state act, and the Victorian Parliament could not
legislate away protection given by the blasphemy law.

Mr Perkins cited the Choudhury case in England, involving Salman Rushdie's
book The Satanic Verses, which held that the blasphemy law protected only
Christianity, not Islam.

Judge Michael Higgins asked if Mr Perkins meant that the Victorian law did
not protect Muslims? Mr Perkins replied: "Yes."

Judge Higgins: "So it might protect Christians but not Muslims from

Mr Perkins: "Yes."

Judge Higgins said a no-case submission claiming the seminar was exempt as a
religious activity would fail "at this time", so Mr Perkins withdrew the

The judge said it was "strongly open" that the seminar breached the act.

He based this on listening to the tape of the seminar, evidence of the
effect it had on the complainants, expert evidence about Pastor Scot's
references to the Koran, and that the seminar was not limited to academic
study of what the Koran says about jihad.

He said the seminar described the attitudes of a small group of
fundamentalist Muslims who "lack association with those Muslim people who
live and work peacefully in this community".

Judge Higgins also mentioned an attempt to influence the court, when a
member of the public sent a letter and two CDs to him.

"I want to make it clear to all here it is not appropriate conduct," he told
the gallery.

"What took place was not sinister, but a failure to understand not only
protocols but the most important aspect, the independence of the trial

Judge Higgins said the sent items had not influenced him.



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