----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 6:18 AM
Subject: Who would believe such a dialogue could happen? by Michael
Who would believe such a dialogue could happen?
by Michael Santomauro
[This is a re-print from Oct. 2003 and what follows below is a re-print
some comments concerning my experience.]
On October 11, 2003, I had one of the most unbelievable experiences. I was
the children's playground in Central Park, in New York City, where I live.
I was talking to a professor who taught at Long Island Aeronautics and has
Ph.D. in engineering.
His name is George. I was in total agreement with him on our perverse
immigration policy that is hurting us.
"There's an Irishman, who is the president of the school, instead of
me the dean position, he gets a woman from India."
I then asked him if it was to reflect the student body. "Because I often
that 55% of the engineering students in America are foreigners."
"No," he said, "it has to do with quotas, for woman and people of color
favored in this country."
I then told him, "I have no problem with women of color getting these high
positions as long as they are American and competent."
I then explained to him how I thought taking talent from other countries
brain drain for the nation they are coming from. Also it hurts the workers
who are born in the U.S.
I asked him if he agreed with a moratorium on immigrants coming to
until we can clean house amongst ourselves.
His mind shifted to something totally unrelated.
"The Arabs are causing all the problems in the world."
"I wouldn't go that far," I told him, "we do have a lopsided foreign
in the Middle East."
His mind was very jumpy.
He asked, "How many Arabs live in Israel?" I told him, "About
20% of the country."
He continued, "There's no Jews living in Arab countries, why can't the
who live in Israel move to the Arab countries?"
"There are Jews living in Arab countries," I told him softly.
I didn't realize I was talking to a Jewish-Zionist extremist.
He gets emotional and says to me, "Only an anti-Semite, would say there
Jews who live in Arab countries."
"But Jews do live in Arab countries."
"Impossible," he yells. "Now? Today? You think there are Jews living in
"Yes, what's so amazing about that?"
"Anyone who says that there are Jews who live in Arab countries is an
I was so mindboggled.
After all this dialogue, he decides to ask if I'm Jewish.
"No," I answered him, "but he's an Arab-Jew." Pointing to an elderly man
sitting next to me on the same park bench. I had struck a conversation
old man sitting beside me, before I met this George.
The old man wants to correct me, "I am a Moroccan-Jew."
So I asked him how many Jews live in Morocco. "Now?" the old man asked me.
shook my head yes. "Maybe 5,000, but when I left in 1967 there were
George then orally lashes out at the old Arab-Jew and accuses him of
"Why would he lie?" I asked rhetorically.
This George was having an emotional breakdown over the fact that Jews
live in Arab countries. I was perplexed.
I then asked the old Moroccan-Jew if the 1967 war which Israel started was
the reason for the exodus, "One of the reasons," he said. He left for
settled in Paris. He explained to us why he left Paris 3 years ago, "There
too much anti-Semitism."
George, now accuses the old man of not knowing what he is talking about.
I asked George, "Who are you or me to say, that he did not experience
anti-Semitism in Paris. Why would he lie to us about that?"
"It's only in dictatorships that Jews suffer from real anti-Semitism".
He continued, "Like Argentina in the 1970s."
Now I started to understand his thought process. "What are you taking
There were more Jews living in Argentina in the 1970s and 80s then now.
that Argentina is no longer a dictatorship Jews are leaving. They are
in droves for economic reasons. And Sharon is luring them with money and
benefits to leave for Israel."
He asked, what I did for a living. That trigged something. I forgot for
moment that most of my clients from Arab countries are Jewish. Their
have successful ventures. These families have no intention of leaving. I
explain this to him.
He then accuses me of anti-Semitism, for stating these simple facts.
He stands up from the park bench waving his arms, "What are we talking
Some token Jews that are 90 years old."
Then I asked if he knew there are synagogues in Arab countries, with
communities and a chief rabbi.
He then went ballistic, and he never heard of a such a thing in the year
"I don't want to sit next to an anti-Semite" and he walks away.
The old man and I looked at each other and I said to him, "This George has
Ph.D." The old man shrugs his shoulders.
Never in a million years would I ever think that someone, would say to me:
"Only an anti-Semite would say Jews live in Arab countries."
I was lucky to have sat next to a Moroccan Jew who I just met a few
before. Later, he would be my witness to tell my wife what just happened.
was a lonely recipient to this, I would not have written about this
Who would believe such a dialogue could happen?
My walk in the park has taught me that being educated does not make one
intelligent or wise.
253 West 72nd street #1711
New York, NY 10023
The above is a re-print from Oct. 2003 and what follows below is a
from some comments concerning my experience.
It took me a long time to learn that even well educated and intelligent
individuals can hold views that are objectively untrue, and act in ways
By the way, there is a significant Jewish community in Syria, of all
and there are still some Jews in Egypt. In Iran, there's not only a Jewish
community, but the Iranian constitution requires that at least one seat in
country's parliament (Majlis) be reserved for a Jew. (In addition, there
reserved seat in the Iran parliament for a Christian deputy, and another
You say "My walk in the park has taught me that being educated does not
one intelligent or wiseMy walk in the park has taught me that being
does not make one intelligent or wise." Quite so -- the worst bigots I
ever met have been the 'educated' ones… Conversely, being 'uneducated', as
I am (autodidacticism does not count as 'education'), does not make one
ignorant or stupid. See:
Social prejudices, however, rule our lives. Group identification is the
of the game.
My last Jewish 'friend', with a degree in architecture, disappeared from
life during a phone conversation. At long last, after many years, he
subject of Israel and suicide bombers, this being shortly after Ariel
Sharon's deliberate act of provocation on the rock. I asked him if he did
that the 'settlements' were the main cause of the problems - I did not use
word illegal. His response? "You're a Nazi!" -- slamming the phone down.
course I am not a Nazi as I do not support any form of racial supremacist
doctrine, including the Jewish one.
I am not in slightest surprised at your experience with George.
I have had similar experiences with the friends of my youth, most of whom
Irish Catholics. Who have benefited from having an excellent education and
have done well in the world. When I expose my views on the "Holocaust"
away from me as if I had a foul disease. A nut case. I can see it in their
eyes. Once in a fit of anger I asked a group of them (10 or 12 people) if
them had ever read anything serious on the subject. I suggested a few
examples. Needless to say the answer was "no". But their opinions were
quite firm on the subject and completely in line with the conventional
So, no, I'm not surprised. It's our biggest problem. Stupid goyim and
Ditto to your last statement!
And you and George are wondering why people from other countries are
here to take "our jobs"?
Perhaps they the immigrants are not so bias and most importantly are
QUALIFIED! and there I say INTELLIGENT!
Not surprised one bit. THAT mentality has been the crux of my personal
experiences with most Jews through out my life -- here and abroad. They
change. They conduct themselves in this despicable manner and wonder why
they are so
universally despised. So what else is new.
Professionally - I was involved in the 'needle trade' industry (garment
associated business) several years ago. I was President of our mfg.co. and
did most of the travel/pr/sales myself. I dealt almost exclusively with
York and Chicago Jews.
They were the most verbally abusive, crude, lying, Gentile hating, miserly
people I had ever experienced. NO OTHER ethnic group even came close. If
were that bad or worse in Weimar Germany - and I was there as a citizen -
probably would have spearheaded a movement to get them the hell out of
The tragedy is that is George was a PH.D...!!!! And there are Millions
Peace and Justice
There are plenty of educated idiots on the planet!! True wisdom comes from
the heart of the soul...
Does Truth Trump the Charge of Anti-Semitism?
If the comments by the Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad
to Mahathir: NY Times, 10/21/03), that, ''today the Jews rule this world
proxy: they get others to fight and die for them'' were in fact true,
should/would this still be considered ''anti-Semitic''? While it is
certainly true that
such statements ''hurt'' the Jewish community in as much as they may well
promote hostility toward them, is this the sole criteria for hurling the
thunderbolt of anti-Semitism at Mahathir? I was led to believe that to be
anti-Semitic, a comment on Jews had to be irrational and without merit.
Mahathir is right!
Albert Speer and the 'Holocaust'
by Mark Weber
Albert Speer may ultimately be best remembered as the only high German
wartime official to be "rehabilitated" during his lifetime and even profit
handsomely from his once-powerful position. The one-time Hitler confidant
Armaments Minister escaped the hangman's noose at Nuremberg by adopting an
unusual defense strategy. While maintaining that he personally knew
nothing of a
Jewish extermination program during the war, he nevertheless declared
guilty for having worked diligently for a regime he belatedly considered
After serving a 20-year prison sentence at Spandau, the democratic mass
showered praise on the "repentant Nazi" for his sometimes subtle but
fervent condemnations of the Hitler regime. His contrite memoirs,
America as Inside the Third Reich, were highly acclaimed and sold very
profitably throughout the world.
Until his death in 1981, Speer repeatedly insisted that he did not know of
any extermination program or gassings during the war. In an obliging May
letter to the Executive Director of the South African Jewish Board of
he stated: " I would give something to be able to state clearly that
ordered the killing of the Jews in my presence. Neither am I in a position
testify to the exact number of Jews killed."
(This statement, incidentally and interestingly, provided yet another
opportunity for "Nazi hunter" Simon Wiesenthal to bleat out one of his big
lies. In a
notarized statement dated 4 May 1981, referring to Speer's letter quoted
above, Wiesenthal declared: "Albert Speer, a former friend of Hitler and
of his government, made a statement for the court in Johannesburg. He
under oath that Hitler often spoke about the murdering of Jews and that as
far as he knows, gasifications [gassings] of Jews took place." How Simon
Wiesenthal gets that out of what Speer actually wrote is a question best
professional students of the "Nazi hunting" psyche.)
Speer's position was remarkable because, if a wartime policy to
the Jews had actually existed, almost no one would have been in a better
position to have known about it. As Reich Armaments Minister, he was
the continental mobilization of all available resources, including
critically-needed Jewish workers. That millions of Jews could have been
killed at a
wartime industrial center as important as Auschwitz and elsewhere without
knowledge simply defies belief.
Historian Charges British
With WWII Massacres
Provokes Row Over Wartime Photos
By Luke Harding
The Guardian - UK
BERLIN -- A controversial German historian is at the centre of a row over
latest book which includes gruesome photos of German civilians killed by
allied bombing during the second world war.
Jorg Friedrich defended the decision yesterday to publish the photographs
showing the incinerated bodies of German women and children, most of them
by British bombs. His book, Fire Sites, published at last week's Frankfurt
Book Fair, argues that the RAF's relentless bombing campaign against
cities in the last months of the war served no military purpose. He claims
Winston Churchill's decision to bomb a shattered Germany between January
1945 was a war crime.
"The bombing left an entire generation traumatised. But it was never
discussed," he told the Guardian.
Mr Friedrich, whose previous book Der Brand or The Fire prompted a storm
publicity and sold 186,000 copies, said that about 600,000 civilians died
during the allied bombing of German cities, including 72,000 children.
people died on one night during the immense firestorms that engulfed
in July 1943. But the German victims were over shadowed by the far greater
of the Holocaust.
Many Germans regarded the British destruction of their cities as
for Nazi crimes, Mr Friedrich said. "The second world war is traditionally
portrayed as a struggle between good and evil. But it wasn't as simple as
he said. The photos in Fire Sites are grim and reveal that many victims
asphyxiated in their cellars. In Dresden, SS workers from a nearby
concentration camp were called in to dispose of heaps of bodies.
Policemen, architects and air protection officers took the photos. Most
lain in the archives of German towns for more than half a century, before
Friedrich found them. He said yesterday he had approached the National
in Kew, west London, for photos of British victims of German bombing but
told they could not be released. His book concedes that Germany started
war in late 1940, when 14,000 British civilians died in German raids.
He acknowledged that he was a revisionist but said he was describing what
happened. "During my public lectures Germans now in their 70s and 80s have
up. They have described, with tears in their eyes, what happened to their
"Many rabbis and professionals have told me recently that they fear for
jobs should they even begin to articulate their doubts about Israeli
policy--much less give explicit support to calls for an end to the
-- Rabbi Michael Lerner
Published on Sunday, April 28, 2002 in the Los Angeles Times
Confessions of a Philosopher:
It is not the case that a belief is worthy of respect, or is even
merely because it is widely held, though that it is widely held may give
food for thought. Of the religions I studied, the one I found least worthy
intellectual respect was Judaism.
----British Scholar and Philosopher Bryan Magee in 1997
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it
violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher, 1788-1860
To subscribe and grow with knowledge or
to unsubscribe and Die Stupid? Send an E-mail to: